Permit Or Not Permit ?

[coryphaena]

J'aimerais avoir votre point de vue sur ces espèces de Permit ou Pompano ci-dessous avec le gribouilli rouge à côté des poissons.

(poissons chassés en Afrique de l'ouest)

 

 

Disons que j'ai déjà pêché des petits permit en surfcasting mais ces derniers étaient toujours complètement argentés.

 

Alors que ceux ci-dessus, ont une sacrée coloration vert foncé, comme ci de temps en temps ils allaient séjourner en embouchure voire en lagune ?

 

J'ai pensé que c'était peut-être des Florida Pompano (Trachinotus Carolinus) mais je n'en suis pas sûre du tout et j'aurais bien aimé en savoir plus pour mieux savoir où les trouver (si un de ces 4 l'occasion se présentait) même si mon idée première est le long de la côte, très près de là où cassent les vagues (les barres) et à proximité des embouchures.

 

Merci pour vos retours/points de vue si vous en avez.

[dom85]

Effectivement, jamais vu ces pompanos, ici deux sortes, l'argenté et celui à queue jaune, mais ceux là, jamais vu

Ceux que je fais c'est toujours dans les passes des lagons, et parfois dans très peu d'eau, 2 à 3m

Encore plus puissant qu'une GT à tirer :wub:

[dom85]

J'ai pas mal eppluché le site d’ichtyologie et j'ai rien vu d'approchant

[coryphaena]

Merci Beaucoup à toi Dom !

 

Moi aussi j'ai jeter un œil et pas trouvé non plus.

 

J'ai fait très peu de surf casting, principalement de la pêche au large, du coup jusqu'à présent je n'ai pas le souvenir d'en avoir vu dans le passé.

Et ce qui m'a fait tout de suite réagir c'est que ces derniers ne sont pas si petits que cela, et ils ont une tête bien bombée.

[Akwajojo]

Bonjour, pour moi ce sont des carangues permit ou pompano "classique" comme j'ai pu en prendre dans le canal du Mozambique. Même coloration, même forme et même format (3 à 6kg à peu près). Je vais rechercher leur nom latin. Je les avais prise sur un site n'ayant aucune arrivée d'eau douce dans le secteur.

[Piero]

Ici en NC, les pompano ont exactement cette couleur et on les pêche en pleine mer....

Désolé la photo n'est pas top !

Depuis cette capture je n'en tire plus, pas exeptionnel niveau coup ni niveau "coup de chasse", il vaux mieux laisser cela aux moucheurs ....

[dom85]

J'ai l'impression que ce n'est pas le même, beaucoup plus vert foncé sur la phto de william

[Piero]

Je sais pas ca me semble bien ressemblant mais je suis pas un expert du tout en pompano !

[coryphaena]

Bonjour,

 

Oui, Dom à raison.

 

Elle s'en rapproche sauf que les nageoires dorsales, ventrales et pectorales sont noire et semblent beaucoup moins effilées, plus courtes et plus arrondies.

 

 

 

 

 

Le permit de Floride est excellent à manger et puissant à pêcher... et quand je les compare avec les autres on dirait qu'il y a aussi quelques différences au niveau de la tête.

 

[coryphaena]

J'en reviens à mon idée initiale.

 

Il semble que cela soit bien le Trachinotus carolinus (Florida Pompano, Common Pompano); Trachinotus blochii (Golden Pompano, Asian Pompano)

 

Le lien >> http://www.clovegarden.com/ingred/sf_pompcz.html

 

 

 

 

Pompano is a highly preferred eating fish. The specimen in the photo was marketed as "Golden Pompano" which is supposed to be T. blochiibut it looks more like Florida Pompano T. carolinus. T. blochii has a much longer dorsal fin. Florida wild caught pompanos are very expensive (actually this fish is found from Massachusetts to Brazil). Both species are farmed commercially and I wouldn't be at all surprised at hybrids of the two. T. carolinus can grow to 25 inches and T. blochii to 43 inches but the photo specimen was 12-1/4 inches and weighed 1 pound 9 ounces, at the high end of market size here in Los Angeles. Photo © cg1.

 

 

This pompano is a medium flavor fish with flesh that holds together very well for all modes of cooking, and it's shape fits pans and steamers better than most fish do. Frying, steaming, baking and poaching whole or as fillets all work well. The flesh is white except for a darker layer right under the skin, but that dark flesh does not have a strong flavor.

Buying: This fish is found in all the Asian fish markets here in Southern California. It is heavily farmed and almost always available. Because it is very often cooked whole, that's the way it is normally sold. Farmed Pompano is quite economical for a premium fish - I've purchased whole fish as low as $2.99/pound.

Scales: Golden / Florida pompano has only an incomplete covering of tiny scales that scrape off as a slush without making a mess.

Cleaning: The main problem for cleaning is the short length of the body cavity, but it's sufficient to get your fingers into. The gills pull rather hard, so a strong pair of long nose pliers is a great help. There are also large stone-like lumps in the throat for crushing shells, and the pliers help here too. They are also good for reaching soft stuff that's hard to get at with your fingers.

Filleting: This is about as easy a fish to fillet as you're going to find. The bone structure is complete and easy to follow with the knife and you can end up with a "see through" skeleton with almost no flesh on it. When you get to the rib cage, just cut the ribs from the backbone with kitchen shears. The ribs are thick and hard, and pull quite cleanly with long nose pliers. There is also a row of substantial centerline spines for the length of the body cavity - pull them straight forward.

Skin: The skin is fairly tough and feels a little leathery, but has no strong or off flavor. Amazingly, it has no shrink when fried, or when cooked by other means. In fact, you can poach a skin-on fillet and, when it hits the hot court bouillon, it actually bends slightly away from the skin side. This makes Pompano ideal for steaming, baking or poaching whole. Once cooked, the skin is very tender.

If you wish a skinless fillet, the standard long knife and cutting board Method works fine, but takes a bit of muscle as the skin adheres strongly to the flesh. The only problem is the width of the fish. Cutting the fillets lengthwise down the centerline makes skinning easier. The skin is easily peeled from a cooked fish if you desire to do that. I see little point in removing the skin from this fish.

Yield: A 1 pound 9 ounce fish yielded 14-1/4 oz of fillet skin-on (57%), 12-3/8 ounces skinless (50%) - a very good yield.

Stock: The head, bones and fins make a very nice fairly light soup stock. There is a fair amount of oil, but this is easily removed using your gravy separator. The oil does not have a strong flavor.

 

 

En provenance de Fishbase >> http://www.fishbase.org/summary/380

 

 

 

Adults occur in coastal waters, commonly entering bays and estuaries. Juveniles found in sandy beaches exposed to wave action (Ref. 5217). Adults are absent from insular areas with coralline habitats (Ref. 5217). They generally form small to large schools. They feed on mollusks, crustaceans and other invertebrates and small fish. Excellent food fish (Ref. 9626). Highest priced marine food fish in the USA (Ref. 171). Have been reared in captivity (Ref. 35420).

[coryphaena]

Et aussi plus d'infos >> http://www.sms.si.edu/irlspec/Trachi_caroli.htm

 

 

I. TAXONOMY

Kingdom Phylum/Division: Class: Order: Family: Genus: Animalia Chordata Actinopterygii Perciformes Carangidae Trachinotus

The Florida pompano. Photo by D. Flescher, National Marine Fisheries Service, courtesy
of the Marine Biological Laboratory, Woods Hole, MA.

The Florida Pompano, Trachinotus carolinus. Illustration by Diana Rome Peebles 1998. Courtesy of Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, Division of
Marine Fisheries.
Species Name:
Trachinotus carolinus (Linnaeus, 1766)

Common Name:
Florida Pompano, common pompano, Atlantic pompano.

Synonymy:
None.

Other Taxonomic Groupings:
Superclass: Osteichthyes
Subclass: Neopterygii
Infraclass: Teleostei
Superorder: Acanthopterygii

Description:
Trachinotus carolinus grows to 43 -63 cm (17 – 25 inches) in length. The body profile is relatively short, deep, and moderately compressed. Color is typically blue to greenish dorsally, fading to silver

laterally, with the ventral surface tending to be silvery to yellow in color. There are no visible vertical bars on sides. Fins are dusky or yellowish in color, particularly the anal fin, which can be lemon yellow in young specimens (Gilbert 1986). The pectoral fins are shorter than the head, with the pelvic fins even shorter than the pectorals. The spinous portion of the dorsal fin has 6 spines that are set close to the body. The anterior portion of the second dorsal fin is elongated, with 22 – 27 (usually 23 – 25) soft rays that extend nearly to the caudal peduncle. The anal fin mirrors the dorsal fin, but has 20 – 24 (usually 21 – 22) rays and originates somewhat behind the dorsal fin. The caudal peduncle is moderately deep and lacks scutes and finlets. The caudal fin is deeply forked. The head profile slopes to a blunt snout, with the mouth somewhat inferior. Teeth are small and conical in young fish, but disappear by the time young grow to approximately 20 cm (7.9 inches). There are no teeth on the tongue at any life stage. There are 8 – 14 gill rakers on the lower limb of the gill arch. Well developed pharyngeal plates are present. Scales are small and cycloid. The lateral line arches to the midpoint of the soft dorsal fin and then becomes straight toward the caudal fin (Berry and Smith-Vaniz, 1978; Gilbert 1986).

Potentially Misidentified Species:
Florida pompano are similar in body form to 2 related species: the permit (Trachinotus falcatus) and the palometa (T. goodie). The permit has fewer soft rays on both the dorsal and anal fins. The dorsal fin typically has 17-21 (usually 17 or 18) soft rays, while the anal fin typically has 16-19 (usually 17-18) rays. Small permit under 9 cm (3.5 inches) total length (TL) also have teeth on the tongue. Additionally, permit grow considerably larger than Florida pompano and can reach as much as 20 – 50 pounds.

The palometa also has fewer dorsal and anal rays, typically 19 - 20 dorsal rays and 16 - 18 anal rays. It also has 4 dark narrow bars on the upper body. Further, the anterior anal and dorsal soft rays are elongated in subadults and adults, and can extend as far as the caudal peduncle.

II. HABITAT AND DISTRIBUTION

Regional Occurrence:
Though uncommon north of Chesapeake Bay, Florida pompano occur in nearshore coastal waters from approximately Cape Cod, Massachusetts south to Brazil, including the Gulf of Mexico, Central America, and patchily in some parts of the West Indies (Gilbert 1986; Robins and Ray 1986). It is generally absent from clear-water, tropical regions such as the Bahamas.

IRL Distribution:
Florida pompano are distributed throughout the IRL with major concentrations occurring along east central Florida from Cape Canaveral south to Palm Beach. On the west coast of Florida, pompano are common from approximately Ft. Meyers south to the Florida Keys.

III. LIFE HISTORY AND POPULATION BIOLOGY

Age, Size, Lifespan:
Maximum recorded length for a Florida pompano was 63.5 cm (25 inches) TL, and 3.6 kg (7.9 pounds) (Fields, 1962; Robbins and Ray 1986), though most are harvested below 1.8 kg (4 pounds) (Buckow 1965).

Finucane (1969) estimated a monthly growth rate of approximately 22 mm (0.86 inches) for post-juveniles, while Bellinger and Avault (1970) estimated an average adult growth rate of 36 mm (1.4 inches) per month. Females tend to grow faster and reach larger sizes than do males (Muller et al. 2002).

Berry and Iversen (1967) estimated that most Florida pompano live 3 -4 years, with some living over 7 years.

Abundance:
Though it is estimated that stocks of Florida pompano are overfished (Muller et al. 2002), pompano can be abundant in east central Florida, especially seasonally. It generally forms small to large schools.

Reproduction:
Males reach sexual maturity at approximately age 1, when they attain 35.6 cm (14 inches) TL. Females reach maturity between the ages of 2-3, when they reach 30 – 39.9 cm (11.8 – 15.7 inches) TL (Muller et al. 2002).

The spawning season for Florida pompano is protracted, lasting from spring through late fall, with peaks from April – June and September – October (Gilbert 1986). It is generally assumed that spawning occurs offshore, based on evidence from larval collections and collection of spent fishes (Gilbert 1986, Muller 2002). Finucane (1969) collected small larvae measuring 3.0 – 4.5 mm (0.12 – 0.18 inches) in waters 24 km (15 miles) offshore in the Gulf of Mexico.

Trachinotus carolinus apparently does not spawn north of Virginia (Gilbert 1986).

Fecundity estimates range from 133,000 – 800,000 eggs per season, depending on body size (Finucane 1969, 1970; Moe et al. 1968).

IV. PHYSICAL TOLERANCES

Temperature:
Berry and Iversen (1967) reported that pompano in the Tampa Bay area inhabit waters ranging from 17 – 32 ºC, but preferred temperatures of 28 – 32 ºC. Moe et al. (1968) studied the effects of decreasing temperatures on pompanos, finding that signs of stress began at when temperature was dropped to 12.2 ºC. Critical minimum temperature for pompano in this study was determined to be 10ºC, while critical maximum temperature was approximately 38ºC. However, it is known that smaller juveniles can withstand considerably higher temperatures, as many have been observed in shoreline tidepools where temperatures may exceed 45 ºC (Gilbert 1986).

Spawning temperatures are not known with certainty, however, few young Florida pompano have ever been collected in waters less than 19ºC (Fields 1962).

Salinity:
Adult Florida pompano are rare in brackish waters where salinity falls below 25 parts per thousand (ppt), preferring salinities of 28 – 37 ppt. Juveniles are able to tolerate salinity as low as 9 ppt (Gunter and Hall 1963) and as high as 50 ppt (Perret et al 1971). Under laboratory conditions, Moe et al. (1968) were able to acclimate captive pompano to 9 ppt, and then to 1.3 ppt. without any mortality occurring.

Dissolved Oxygen:
Moe et al. (1968) found that pompano became stressed when dissolved oxygen content dropped to approximately 3 parts per million (ppm). Mortality occurred at 2.5 ppm.

Other Physical Tolerances:
Moe et al (1968) reported mortality in pompano when pH levels in aquaria dropped below 4 or exceeded 12.

V. COMMUNITY ECOLOGY

Trophic Mode:
Pompano are primarily bottom feeders that opportunistically “graze” preferred species. Well developed pharyngeal plates are present, and indicate that hard-shelled organisms such as crabs and mollusks are important in the diet. Young pompano apparently feed on organisms that are most available; but become more selective in their prey choices as they age (Finucane 1969; Gilbert 1986). Juveniles ranging in size from 13.5 – 80.5 mm (0.53 – 3.2 inches) SL consume amphipods, bivalves, crab larvae, copepods, isopods and invertebrate eggs (Fields 1962). Finucane (1969) reported pompano in Tampa Bay, Florida, ranging in size from 50 – 100 mm (1.9 – 3.9 inches), ate crustaceans and mollusks, while those from 110 – 138 mm (4.3 – 5.4 inches) ate Donax sp., particularly Donax variabilis (variable coquina).

Limited data are available for food habits of adult Florida pompano. However, Finucane (1969) sampled gut contents from 19 adult pompanos taken in the Tampa Bay area and found that all fishes sampled fed exclusively on the scorched mussel, Brachidontes exustus, which commonly lives attached to rocks in the deeper portion of Tamp Bay. However, adult pompano caught in the Gulf of Mexico, in the vicinity of oil rigs, fed primarily on penaeid shrimp.

Competitors:
Florida pompano are preyed upon by birds, particularly brown pelicans, and other birds that utilize beach areas as feeding grounds (Gilbert 1986).

Parasites of Florida pompano include 2 genera of isopods. Ione spp. attach to the mouth and gill area, while Aegathoa spp. Attach to the body and fins. A parasitic brachyuran, Argulus sp. was also found on the skin. Mature and immature nematodes were located inside the body cavity and encysted in the viscera (Finucane 1969).

Habitats:
Trachinotus carolinus larvae spend their first month of life in offshore waters, migrating nearshore upon reaching approximately 10 – 30 mm (0.39 – 1.18 inches) standard length (SL). In Florida, migration typically occurs from mid-April through mid-May (Fields 1962). This early group of larvae is followed at approximately 1 month intervals by later cohorts until October or, sometimes, December. Juvenile pompano migrate to deeper waters upon reaching 60 – 70 mm (2.4 – 2.8 inches) TL, beginning in mid-July and continuing until winter water temperatures drop below 19ºC, at which time, nearly all juveniles have moved to deeper waters (Gilbert 1986).

Low energy surf zones along beaches are the preferred nursery habitat for larvae and young juveniles (Field 1962; Gilbert 1986). Typical habitats for older juveniles as well as adult Trachinotus carolinus are sloping beaches with sandy or muddy substrata, estuaries and shallow bays, piers, and sand flats (Fields 1962; Gilbert 1986). Maximum depth is approximately 60 to 75m (197 – 246 feet) (Field 1962).

VI. SPECIAL STATUS

Special Status:
None.

Fisheries Importance:
Prized as one of the great food fishes in Florida waters, the dockside price for Florida pompano is typically among the highest per pound for any fish (Gilbert 1986). Florida pompano are caught commercially in all states from Virginia through Texas, but Florida accounts for more than 90% of the total harvest. The average commercial size for Florida pompano ranges from 27.9 – 33.0 cm (11 – 13 inches) in length (Muller et al. 2002). In Florida waters, most of the commercial catch is harvested along the west coast, from Charlotte County south through Monroe County, with the bulk of the harvest taken offshore from Lee and Collier Counties (Muller et al. 2002). On Florida’s east coast, the bulk of the commercial catch is taken offshore between Brevard county and Palm Beach County. Some of the commercial catch is harvested from the Indian River and Banana Rivers (Muller et al. 2002; Gilbert 1986). Interestingly, harvests of pompano increased in Lee and Collier Counties after gill nets were banned from Florida waters in 1995; however it is believed that this increase in harvest resulted more from changes in gear types than to an increase in the pompano population (Muller et al. 2002).

The commercial fishery for pompano shows a degree of seasonality. In northwest Florida, most landings are made in April, with secondary peaks from August through September. In the Tampa Bay area, the fishery is active year-round, with landings peaking from March - April, and July - November. In the Florida Keys, most landings occur from December through February. On Florida’s east coast, the northeast fishery peaks in April, while in the vicinity of the Indian River Lagoon, the highest landings are recorded between November and May (Muller et al. 2002).

Catch rates for pompano, when adjusted statistically for catch effort (number of trips, duration of trips, etc.) have declined gradually on the east coast of Florida from 1985 – 2000, with an average of 54% fewer trips after 1995 on the Atlantic coast. On the west coast, catch rates were stable between 1985 and 1992, and then increased. However, after 1995, commercial trips declined an average of 65% (Muller et al. 2002).

COMMERCIAL LANDINGS DATA:
Figure 1. Annual dollar value of the commercial catch of Florida pompano to the 5-county
area of the Indian River Lagoon.

Figure 2. Total Florida pompano dollar value and percentage by county for the years
1987 - 2001.

 

Volusia Brevard Indian
River St. Lucie Martin Total Value Value Value Value Value Value YEAR ($) ($) ($) ($) ($) to IRL 1987 $321,962 $162,351 $52,584 $277,423 $68,214 $882,534 1988 $185,870 $152,397 $43,766 $264,500 $75,045 $721,578 1989 $253,413 $232,370 $111,921 $247,975 $37,476 $883,155 1990 $171,227 $320,825 $72,015 $313,613 $70,119 $947,799 1991 $129,275 $192,186 $61,594 $216,730 $42,351 $642,136 1992 $99,078 $151,863 $54,541 $187,208 $59,755 $552,445 1993 $101,601 $73,390 $42,221 $230,406 $44,518 $492,136 1994 $126,661 $85,633 $41,310 $280,618 $78,474 $612,696 1995 $166,103 $84,264 $37,022 $111,420 $19,501 $418,310 1996 $72,323 $103,094 $26,103 $185,884 $5,234 $392,638 1997 $113,379 $82,507 $22,427 $314,713 $30,500 $563,526 1998 $120,131 $83,413 $44,635 $336,467 $12,154 $596,800 1999 $69,105 $81,393 $28,081 $122,826 $14,391 $315,796 2000 $103,834 $46,521 $41,352 $120,159 $20,513 $332,379 2001 $81,246 $90,324 $27,996 $39,546 $14,957 $254,069 Cumulative
Totals: $2,115,208 $1,942,531 $707,568 $3,249,488 $593,202 $8,607,997

 

Table 1. Total dollar value of IRL Florida pompano, Trachinotus carolinus, between
1987 - 2001.

 

Volusia Brevard Indian River St. Lucie Martin % % % % % YEAR Total Total Total Total Total 1987 36.5% 18.4% 6.0% 31.4% 7.7% 1988 25.8% 21.1% 6.1% 36.7% 10.4% 1989 28.7% 26.3% 12.7% 28.1% 4.2% 1990 18.1% 33.8% 7.6% 33.1% 7.4% 1991 20.1% 29.9% 9.6% 33.8% 6.6% 1992 17.9% 27.5% 9.9% 33.9% 10.8% 1993 20.6% 14.9% 8.6% 46.8% 9.0% 1994 20.7% 14.0% 6.7% 45.8% 12.8% 1995 39.7% 20.1% 8.9% 26.6% 4.7% 1996 18.4% 26.3% 6.6% 47.3% 1.3% 1997 20.1% 14.6% 4.0% 55.8% 5.4% 1998 20.1% 14.0% 7.5% 56.4% 2.0% 1999 21.9% 25.8% 8.9% 38.9% 4.6% 2000 31.2% 14.0% 12.4% 36.2% 6.2% 2001 32.0% 35.6% 11.0% 15.6% 5.9%

Table 2. By-county annual and cumulative percentages of the Florida pompano harvest
for the years 1987-2001.

Volusia Brevard Indian River St. Lucie Martin Dollars $593,202 $3,249,488 $707,568 $1,942,531 $2,115,208 % 6.9% 37.7% 8.2% 22.6% 24.6%

Table 3. By-county cumulative dollar value and percentage of total for the Florida
pompano harvest from 1987 - 2001.

 

RECREATIONAL LANDINGS DATA:
Trachinotus carolinus is also an important recreational species, with landings by sport fishers increasing since 1989 (Muller et al. 2002). Approximately 58% of Florida’s recreational harvest of pompano is made on the east coast; with nearly 59% of the east coast catch taken from shore-based sites such as jetties and piers, and 41% harvested using boats. The bulk of the east coast harvest is taken during winter and early spring. However, recreational landings in the Gulf of Mexico show no such pattern (Muller et al. 2002).


Figure 3. Survey data for the Florida pompano recreational fishery showing the number of
fish harvested in East Florida waters from 1997 - 2004. Data provided by National
Marine Fisheries Service, Fisheries Statistics Division, NOAA.

Figure 4. Summary of the Florida pompano recreational harvest and percentage of total by
area from 1997 - 2004. Data provided by National Marine Fisheries Service,
Fisheries Statistics Division, NOAA.

 

To 3 Miles

To 200
Miles

Other East
FL. Inland

IRL TOTAL 1997 46,417 95,519 25,590 167,527 1998 109,150 20,610 25,937 155,697 1999 40,224 436 7,745 5,026 53,432 2000 155,557 10,153 30,578 196,288 2001 73,362 10,534 12,170 96,066 2002 47,460 9,829 48,568 105,856 2003 280,745 3,851 37,951 322,547 2004 217,573 4,002 19,809 241,383 Total: 970,488 436 162243 205629 1,338,796

Table 4. Summary data for recreational fishery in Eastern Florida waters for the Florida
pompano, Trachinotus carolinus, from 1997 - 2004. Data provided by National
Marine Fisheries Service, Fisheries Statistics Division, NOAA.

To 3 To 200 Miles Other E. FL Inland IRL Miles % Total % Total % Total % Total 1997 27.71% 0.00% 57.02% 15.28% 1998 70.10% 0.00% 13.24% 16.66% 1999 75.28% 0.82% 14.50% 9.41% 2000 79.25% 0.00% 5.17% 15.58% 2001 76.37% 0.00% 10.97% 12.67% 2002 44.83% 0.00% 9.29% 45.88% 2003 87.04% 0.00% 1.19% 11.77% 2004 90.14% 0.00% 1.66% 8.21%

Table 5. By-county annual and cumulative percentages of the Florida pompano harvest
for the years 1997 - 2001. Data provided by National Marine Fisheries Service,
Fisheries Statistics Division, NOAA.

To 3 Miles To 200 Miles Other Inland IRL No. Fish 970,488 436 162,243 205,629 % 72.49% 0.03% 12.12% 15.36%

Table 6. Summary of the Florida pompano recreational harvest and the percentage of
total fish captured in each area from 1997 - 2004. Data provided by National
Marine Fisheries Service, Fisheries Statistics Division, NOAA.

VII. REFERENCES

Armitage, T.M. and W.S. Alevizon. 1980. The diet of the Florida pompano
(Trachinotus carolinus) along the east coast of central Florida. Florida
Scientist 43(1):19-22.

Bellinger, J.W. and J.W. Avault, Jr. 1970. Seasonal occurrence, growth, and
length-weight relationship of juvenile pompano, Trachinotus carolinus, in
Louisiana. Trans. Am. Fish. Soc. 99(2):353-358.

Bellinger, J.W. and J.W. Avault, Jr. 1971. Food habits of juvenile pompano,
Trachinotus carolinus, in Louisiana. Trans. Am. Fish. Soc. 100(3):486-494.

Berry, F.H. and E.S. Iversen. 1967. Pompano: biology, fisheries and farming
potential. Proc. Gulf. Carrib. Fish. Inst. 19:116-128.

Berry, F.H. and W.F. Smith-Vaniz, 1978 Carangidae. In W. Fischer (ed.) FAO
species identification sheets for fishery purposes. West Atlantic (Fishing Area
31). Volume 1. FAO, Rome. [var. pag.]

Buckow, E.C. 1965. Pompano, Trachinotus carolinus,: angling methods.
Pages 764 – 765, in: A.J. McClane, ed. McLane’s new standard fishing
encyclopedia. Holt, Renehard, and Winston. 156 pp.

Fields, H.M. 1962. Pompanos (Trachinotus sp.) of South Atlantic coast of the
United States. U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Fisheries Bulletin. 62:189-222.

Finucane, J.H. 1969. Ecology of the pompano (Trachinotus carolinus) and the
permit (T. falcatus) in Florida. Trans Am. Fish. Soc. 98(3):478-486.

Finucane, J.H. 1970. Progress in pompano mariculture in the United States. First
Annual Workshop, World Mariculture Society. Pp. 69-72.

Gunter, G. and G.H. Hall. 1963. Biological investigations of the St. Lucie Estuary
(Florida) in connection with Lake Okeechobee discharge through the St. Lucie
Canal. Gulf Coast Res. Lab. Gulf. Res. Rep. 1(5):189-307.

Gilbert, C. 1986. Species profiles: life histories and environmental requirements of
coastal fishes and invertebrates (south Florida): Florida pompano. U.S. Fish
and Wildlife Service Biological Report 82(11.42). U.S. Army Corps of
Engineers, TR-EL-82-4. 14 pp.

International Game Fish Association, 2001 Database of IGFA angling records
until 2001. IGFA, Fort Lauderdale, USA.

Johnson, G.D. 1978. Development of fishes of the Mid-Atlantic Bight. An atlas of
egg, larval and juvenile stages. Vol. 4. Carangidae through Ephippidae. US
Fish Wildl. Serv. Biol. Serv. Prog. FWS/OBS-78/12.

Moe, M.A., Jr. , R.A. Lewis, and R.M. Ingle. 1968. Pompano mariculture:
preliminary data and basic considerations. Fla. Board Conserv. Mar. Lab.
Tech. Ser. Ser. 55. 65 pp.

Muller, R.G., K.Tisdel, and M.D. Murphy. 2002. The 2002 update of the stock
assessment of Florida Pompano (Trachinotus carolinus). Florida Fish and
Wildlife Conservation Commission, Florida Marine Research Institute, St.
Petersburg, FL. 45 pp.

Perret, W.S., W.R. Latipie, J.F. Pollard, W.R. Mock, B.G. Adkins, W.J. Gaidry,
and C.J. White. 1971. Fishes and invertebrates collected in trawl and seine
samples in Louisiana estuaries. Pages 39-105 in: Louisiana Wildlife and
Fisheries Commission Cooperative Gulf of Mexico Estuarine Inventory and
Study. Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, Baton Rouge. 175 pp.

Robins, C.R. and G.C. Ray, 1986 A field guide to Atlantic coast fishes ofNorth
America. Houghton Mifflin Company, Boston, U.S.A. 354 p.

Report by: K. Hill, Smithsonian Marine Station
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[jo54]

 

Nikki-Permit1-2.jpg

Il a l'air très sympa a chasser celui de Floride!!

[jean crevette]

Nikki-Permit1-2.jpg

Il a l'air très sympa a chasser celui de Floride!!

 

 

ça, c'est permit pompeuse!!

[sylvain]

Coryphaena,

 

A mon avis il s'agit de Trachinotus maxillosus, on a exactement les mêmes au Sénégal. J'en ai pris également au Bénin et en Guinée.

Selon le bouquin de l'ORSTOM sur les poissons de l'Ouest africain tropical la coloration est bleu-vert sur le tiers supérieur du corps et argenté sur le reste.

Lorsqu'on les sort de l'eau la partie ventrale et caudale prend une coloration jaune très marquée.

[coryphaena]

Coryphaena,

 

A mon avis il s'agit de Trachinotus maxillosus, on a exactement les mêmes au Sénégal. J'en ai pris également au Bénin et en Guinée.

Selon le bouquin de l'ORSTOM sur les poissons de l'Ouest africain tropical la coloration est bleu-vert sur le tiers supérieur du corps et argenté sur le reste.

Lorsqu'on les sort de l'eau la partie ventrale et caudale prend une coloration jaune très marquée.

 

Bonjour Sylvain et merci beaucoup pour ta participation, c'est super.

 

Alors, oui, tu as raison, ça pourrait être en effet cette espèce.

 

Mais, à y regarder de plus près, notamment au niveau de la forme des nageoires, de la caudale et même de la tête, je continue à penser qu'il s'agit bien de le trachinotus carolinus.

Observe bien les nageoires et compare les avec la photo de trachinotus maxillosus ci-dessous en provenance de Guinée et tu remarqueras que c'est pas du tout cela.

 

 

Surtout, n'hésite pas. :flowers:

[sylvain]

Salut Coryphaena,

 

Je ne suis pas un taxonomiste averti mais, toujours selon le bouquin de l'ORSTOM, IRD maintenant, il n'y aurait sur la côte ouest africaine que deux espèces de trachynotes...T.maxilosus et T. goreensis...Tes photos ça ressemble plus à maxillosus...mais pas facile de voir les détails...Sur celle-ci c'est clairement maxillosus...

 

Par contre l'humanoïde sur la photo c'est un Jeff Camrubbi...As-tu des nouvelles de lui?...Il est venu chasser en Guinée sur mon épave favorite il y a bien longtemps...Je serais heureux de le revoir.

Si tu as le contact avec Jeff pose-lui la question car il collabore avec fishbase et se débrouille plus que mal avec la taxonomie.

[coryphaena]

Je ne connais malheureusement pas Jeff même si son visage me dit quelque chose.

J'ai pris sa photo sur Fishbase.

 

Je suis assez d'accord avec toi sur le principe mais pour ce que j'en voie en fonction de la forme des nageoires je ne suis pas convaincu qu'il n'y ai que 2 espèces sur ce coup là.

 

En effet, rien que pour faire la comparaison avec la trachynotes goreensis son nom commun est ''longfin pompano'' et sur mes photos, c'est très loin d'être le cas.

Par-contre, la trachynotes goreensis est en effet une variété très courante en bord de mer, que l'on va très facilement pêcher sur les zones de sables, là où il y a pas mal de courant et de rouleaux. Si les hameçons sont trop petits en surfcasting, elle mordra avec plaisir à la crevette.

Par-contre je n'en ai jamais vu de plus de 1 ou 2 kg donc est-ce que cette espèce à sses nageoires qui raccourcissent et s’arrondissent avec les années ? - possible

 

 

J'en avais un en papier et dessiné de l'ORTOM pour la côte d'ivoire uniquement et malheureusement, lui aussi il a brûlé en 2004. Il était top car en plus il indiquait le nom local des poissons qui variaient en fonction des ethnies.

 

Après, il ne faut pas oublier que ce n'est pas non plus une science exacte et la documentation n'est parfois pas réactualisé pendant 20-30ans.

 

J'ai un bon exemple où dans les années 90 il était indiqué dans les livres scientifique que j'avais eu entre les mains, qu'il n'existait pas de calamars géant dans cette immense zone couvrant l’Afrique de l'ouest à l’Amérique du sud (Venezuela et Brésil).

Et pourtant, j'en ai vu quelques-un de très près passer sous le thonier la nuit lorsque nous dérivions et que bizarrement j'étais le seul à ne pas dormir, trop occupé à essayer de pêcher les calamars et les coryphènes et admirer ces dernières chasser les poissons volants qui planaient sous les feux des projecteurs.

 

Autre exemple, un peu hors sujet mais pas tant que cela, sur Pointe noir au Congo, on pêche plus souvent du petit marlin noir (m. indica) que du marlin bleu (m. nigricans) et pourtant, la frontière naturelle autours du cap de bon Espérance en Afrique du sud est pourtant assez éloignée.....

 

Fin des années 60 début 70 il a été pêché un jour à la palangrotte pas trop loin d'Abidjan un poisson du même acabit que le cœlacanthe. Et pourtant, il semble être indiqué qu'il n'existerait pas d'équivalent en atlantique.

 

[coryphaena]

en tout cas ce sujet est cool car il m'oblige à regarder un peu les docs et les noms scientifique. ^_^

 

Tien sylvain, j'ai trouvé ce livre à l'instant >> https://books.google.fr/books?id=QadBrV6G_XcC&pg=PA206&lpg=PA206&dq=trachynotes+goreensis&source=bl&ots=BHDhO_vQ0U&sig=2gk_21FX4jvu4B5uLhjNjmsXb-s&hl=fr&sa=X&ei=oEAVVfTjD4WwUcDfgLgM&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=trachynotes%20goreensis&f=false

[dom85]

Interressant ce bouquin, mais manque de précisions